Reformed Dialogismoi

January 24, 2008

Calvin Wouldn’t Agree II

Filed under: Federal Vision — Nomad @ 7:03 am
Tags: , ,

Federal Visionists, from time to time, like to invoke the out-of-context comments of various reformers to support a notion such as temporary salvation for the reprobate. Their out-of-context proof-texting methods are completely wasted on Scripture as well. Standing firmly upon partial Biblical data is not only deceiving, it’s deadly when it comes to the truth. Satan himself was expert at this method while tempting Jesus. The truth of the matter is that partial truth is no truth at all.

Here again is the Biblical view of so-called temporary salvation and John Calvin’s thoughts on the matter.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. – English Standard Version

They went out from us - He anticipates another objection, that the Church seemed to have produced these pests, and to have cherished them for a time in its bosom. For certainly it serves more to disturb the weak, when any one among us, professing the true faith, falls away, than when a thousand aliens conspire against us. He then confesses that they had gone out from the bosom of the Church; but he denies that they were ever of the Church. But the way of removing this objection is, to say, that the Church is always exposed to this evil, so that it is constrained to bear with many hypocrites who know not Christ, really, however much they may by the mouth profess his name.

By saying, They went out from us, he means that they had previously occupied a place in the Church, and were counted among the number of the godly. He, however, denies that they were of them, though they had assumed the name of believers, as chaff though mixed with wheat on the same floor cannot yet be deemed wheat.

For if they had been of us He plainly declares that those who fell away had never been members of the Church. And doubtless the seal of God, under which he keeps his own, remains sure, as Paul says, (2 Timothy 2:19.) But here arises a difficulty, for it happens that many who seemed to have embraced Christ, often fall away. To this I answer, that there are three sorts of those who profess the Gospel; there are those who feign piety, while a bad conscience reproves them within; the hypocrisy of others is more deceptive, who not only seek to disguise themselves before men, but also dazzle their own eyes, so that they seem to themselves to worship God aright; the third are those who have the living root of faith, and carry a testimony of their own adoption firmly fixed in their hearts. The two first have no stability; of the last John speaks, when he says, that it is impossible that they should be separated from the Church, for the seal which God’s Spirit engraves on their hearts cannot be obliterated; the incorruptible seed, which has struck roots, cannot be pulled up or destroyed.

He does not speak here of the constancy of men, but of God, whose election must be ratified. He does not then, without reason declare, that where the calling of God is effectual, perseverance would be certain. He, in short, means that they who fall away had never been thoroughly imbued with the knowledge of Christ, but had only a light and a transient taste of it.

That they might be made manifest He shews that trial is useful and necessary for the Church. It hence follows, on the other hand, that there is no just cause for perturbation. Since the Church is like a threshing-floor, the chaff must be blown away that the pure wheat may remain. This is what God does, when he casts out hypocrites from the Church, for he then cleanses it from refuse and filth.

2 Comments »

  1. He, however, denies that they were of them, though they had assumed the name of believers, as chaff though mixed with wheat on the same floor cannot yet be deemed wheat. For if they had been of us He plainly declares that those who fell away had never been members of the Church… Since the Church is like a threshing-floor, the chaff must be blown away that the pure wheat may remain. This is what God does, when he casts out hypocrites from the Church, for he then cleanses it from refuse and filth.

    Great post! I can’t believe you haven’t gotten the typical FV response yet: “That’s true in one sense, but in another sense…” blah, blah, blah.

    Comment by Roger Mann — January 25, 2008 @ 2:42 pm

  2. Hey Roger,

    Actually, Gabe Martini attempted the “multi-sense” argument with regard to my first post “Calvin Wouldn’t Agree.” http://jude3.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/calvin-wouldnt-agree/#comments

    Gabe said:

    Are you saved?

    Yes, in some sense. If we presume upon a number of things, “objectively.”

    But you haven’t “been saved” in the full sense of the word yet. You are still living, and the resurrection has not occured. You’re not saved yet, and still you are “saved” in some sense.

    Comment by Machaira — January 25, 2008 @ 2:57 pm


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